Forums de Wizou

wow wow... I'm ok to help but I may not disclose all the magic of FLC )
I don't use systems_shortest_path.ini, I recursively calculate the shortest path from each base to every base using a clever algorithm to find the most efficient route using lanes and gates (even breaking the lane midway)

If you want to rewrite FLC just because you're missing a feature, maybe it's simpler to just ask for this feature and I will add it to FLC,
as long as it doesn't break the fun of the game.

I'm also thinking about adding a plugin system, so that one could add features..
for example, the logic to implement the dynamic economy system of some mods (i have started to reverse engineer this system and I think it would be more adequate to implement it as a plugin)

Thanks for the info, I'm mostly just curious because I've done a lot of programming work freelance and solo, so I don't get a lot of oppourtunities to talk about how other people would code things.


I'm going to guess this is addressed to Brutos, or perhaps you've misunderstood the nature of my questions To be honest though, I am playing with the idea of writing my own because I don't have any projects going on right now, and it sounds like a good blend of fun and challenge. With that in mind, I appriciate any info you do give, but don't spill all the beans on the tricky stuff, I'll want to figure that out myself

Oh, and out of respect for freeware that already fills the need, I won't be releasing anything, so no worries there. A plugin system could be really neat, I never got in to plugins before, do you have any suggested reading for me to get an idea what is involved?

Well I want to break the game. I don't see much point in flying to every base and noting everything down just to find out traderoutes. That is no fun for me and a big waste of time. And it would be a grind like any other stupid mmorpg. If I wanted to do that I'd go play WoW. All I want is to have some fun in the short amount of freetime I have.

Also I can imagine that it could add a lot of fun to the game. Because then both parties, the traders and the pirates know where the trade routes are. So you make a lot of money and you have some good Role Play moments (at least on a RP server).

I don't see what would be wrong in computing the best closed circuits with the highest profit and I think that I'm going to write that as soon as I have time.

Just remember that FLC is walking on the slight line between being welcomed and being forbidden by mods authors.

You can bring intelligence to traders with enough information as FLC does and the fun of the game remains.

But if you break too much of the game and release the tool publicly, you have to deal with the consequence of breaking the fun for all non-traders and for every trader using your tool and doing the same closed-circuit trade routes.

As I said before, doing always the same closed-circuit trade routes is no fun anyway as it stops you from exploring all of the universe, which is also part of the fun of the game.... explore new worlds..


PS: @sound_spawn can you update your email address in your profile, it seems incorrect.

Let me know what algorithm you choose to compute those. It's very easy to find the best route. It's guaranteeing that you can find the next-best for certain where things get interesting. At initial glance, the problem appears to be NP-Hard, but I think it can be done as a NP followed by LP solution.

email updated, I rebuilt my server and in the upgrade changed SMTP server software (which I just realized broke all my alias'). Didin't realize until just now, thanks for speaking up about it.

Going to new systems and finding out (sometimes the really hard way) where you should and shouldn't be going is what makes things interesting. I personally use FLC to look at where I need to go (meeting up with friends) and find something worth taking with me to them. If you spend less time trying to make a closed circuit, and instead just take one of the top 3 or 4 profit/sec destinations each time, I think you'll find you can make a great deal of money and not get burned out from constantly running the same route.

I think the "best closed circuit" may be subjective anyway. I know there may be a "most profit/sec" in a repeatable loop, but that will likely be a ridiculously large loop that ends up taking you to all corners of the map, or something incredibly dangerous. The best closed circuit for me would have to be low risk (enemy ship presence and level, including multiplayer pirates who you can't consider via coding) and I'm not sure how a program can help weigh that any better than just trying some runs with high profit/sec and sticking with ones that felt good. Or is there a reason you want to eventually end up where you started? After all, that's the only difference between what I'm describing, and a closed circuit, right?

Well, in some ways, that's the attraction of having a program find the most profitable loops for you. It would find loops that you had never considered. You could use a different run every day if you wanted. You could swap to a different trade circuit when you encountered an intersecting loop. When you're armed with more trade loops than you knew before, it's easier to keep it from getting boring, not harder! When I wrote such a program it was actually a problem because it found so many slightly different variations on the best loops that you had to sift through them to actually find the totally distinct loops you were really interested in. I couldn't use a "top 10 list", I had to use a "top 200 list", and sift through it for really disparate routes. You were presented with so many different options, you really could tweak your normal runs and still end up with about the same amount of cash when you were done. You could choose a different loop that fit the amount of time you had free before you had to get in the car and go to work, etc.

In summary: More options is actually the solution to the boredom problem. A program that gives you more options is therefore helpful.



The program absolutely can't respond to such dynamic conditions without a hook into the server itself to identify locations of people you consider dangerous. So about all you could do is watch out for enemies on the trade run you're currently on, and be ready to switch to a different route as the situation called for it. Again, you can't do that if you don't know of all the possible lucrative alternate routes. See previous comments.

Obviously I can see the merit of such a program, since I went to the trouble of finding a way around the mathematical difficulties involved, and I can't fault Brutos for wanting to do the same thing. But I can see wiz0u's point about the "best" loops losing their attractiveness through overuse.

Although I don't disagree with anything you have said, I think the idea of "swap to a different trade circuit when you encountered an intersecting loop" is making a fictitious object (called a circuit) that for some reason people think is good, or a goal to achieve. At any given base, there are multiple "good" destinations to choose from, and returning back to the starting base, even with an empty cargo, constitutes a "circuit". If you make $500/sec to get there and $0/sec to get back, the circuit nets you $250/sec.

Just select your starting base (where you are currently), sort by profit/sec, and if nothing looks interesting, than change your starting base to another location in the same system. If you see a good A-to-B, then double click on the destination, and repeat. If you don't see a good B-to-C then check other bases in the same system as B again, and eventually you find a nice run... each time generally unique because of the users perspective of what seems like a good run to them at the time. If you find any routes you really like, jot them down. Am I missing something here?

And again I implore, any reason you need to end up at the same base you started at? It's very restricting to force your run into a repeatable loop without cause, even though I'll admit I've been guilty of it myself. What I mean is, it's not like docking at Planet Manhattan (as an example only) does something (free repair, bonus credits, pushes storyline, etc) so why force your "beginning base" to be your "ending base" in a run? Just end up wherever you end up, and run the best route from there when you play again.

Well, I'd say the main reason I tried to find circuits returning to the same starting point was two things:
a) I played a lot on FLU, where some of the factions were hostile or were known to be in X system at the time I was logged on. I wanted to find the best trade routes in different parts of the universe, so I would know a good trade run at any time my enemies were logged in. Understand that I wasn't in it for the "merchant experience" as you describe. A large part of playing the FLU mod was getting capital ships, or helping your clan get cap ships, which cost a lot of money, and I was mostly interested in profit/time for the limited playing time that I had every day. I wasn't very good at space combat, so I liked to feel I helped the clan where I was capable.
b) Interest in the mathematical commodity digraph problem itself.

Argue till you're blue in the face with a), but you can't deny me b) . There will always be interest in this sort of commodity flow problem, whether for practical or academic reasons. It's natural for someone to want the answer for the pratical side of things, whereas I liked the graph theory even if I don't play much anymore.

Just been reading through the forum and noticed this post. Any update to what you think about a plugin system? I already have an idea for a plugin which I hinted in one of my other posts...